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so i know you've heard about this i mean

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everyone's heard about this

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so what happened the first time that you

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smoked the toad medicine i just

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felt this white light this

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dissolution of my self it's like a

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cultural

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meme on the simpsons lift the toes

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infinite

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and have a cycle fractals and sacred

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geometry and energy

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but did you know it's freaking what i

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thought was the recognition with my

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breath

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okay right i want to show you uh the

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product of the collect of the medicine

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of this year

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this is what the natives and us

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have collected so far and i want to

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explain you

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the process of how we collect and do the

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the medicine so so that looks like a lot

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of medicine

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a collect of maybe a thousand of totes

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on today's show which is long long

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overdue

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and i have to apologize to niles and

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rack for taking so long to get this

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out especially since their documentary

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film

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series shamans of the global village is

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so

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truly truly amazing remarkable stuff

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that i really hope you go watch here's a

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clip from my interview with niles

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what do you think of that science of

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entheogens

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kind of a different flavor to them

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so it's been spoken of for example but

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like psilocybin mushrooms are very like

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cosmic and alien and then the other type

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of dmt which we highlight which you

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mentioned as the white light in episode

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one is very much like this kind of

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hadron of hyperspace that merges into

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the

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gaian you know god head type dynamic of

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fusing back into the light

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and then other other indigenous

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medicines such as like

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peyote and and um the cacti

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have a very kind of masculine uh desert

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energy to them and

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it's probably several things of what you

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hit on there

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one is probably like the the history and

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the genealogy of your people

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where your people come from um what you

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resonate with in terms of which medicine

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maybe your ancestors practiced with

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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i'm your host alex akaris and today we

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welcome

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niles heckman to skeptico niles

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is a truly amazing uh

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filmmaker documentarian uh in a

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photographer and a bunch of other stuff

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you're gonna see in a minute the

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stunningly beautiful documentary series

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he's done

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shamans of the global village

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he's also a blogger of podcaster

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communicator and i'm popping up his

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website here

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but there's so many interesting things

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to talk about

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he likes to put it in this category of

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ageless wisdom some people are calling

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and theogens

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the topic that we might pigeonhole it

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into

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but there's all kinds of stuff related

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to this that i think are

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just particularly interesting and really

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respect the the

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deeply intellectual way he's

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taking this trying to tie it with other

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things

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and contrasting it with what some people

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in the occult community are saying and

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all that i really like appreciated that

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the broad perspective that he seems to

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be bringing to all this so niles it's

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really cool

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to have you on i'm so glad we connected

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welcome

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yeah thanks alex i will not be spending

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this uh conversation trying to convince

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you we are biological robots in a

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meaningless universe

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okay no good you you're enough enough to

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do the

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little uh survey that i that i have

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which is always good because i do

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sometimes find myself talking to people

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and not realizing that we're kind of on

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a different

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page so it's kind of a good grounding

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thing you know so i thought we would

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jump right in

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and talk about this film series that

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you've done

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uh shamans of the global village

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it's like i said it's quite

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extraordinary do you want to tell us a

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little bit about

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your background niles how you came to do

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this particular

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work and then i thought we'd play a

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short introductory clip from it

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yeah sure i mean i would call myself to

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simplify a documentarian and an essayist

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and uh it's kind of like being a writer

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it's like well then what's the subject

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matter of what you focus on and

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depending upon the depth of the subject

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matter you you can

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there's a lot to pull from something so

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i what i more really am as an

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esotericist i don't necessarily put that

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front and center on the website

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but because esotericism is essentially

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the inside like you should see the outer

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work manifesting with what's correlating

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with what's going on with inside you so

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all of my overarching body of work

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focuses on

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yes themes of maybe what might be

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thought of as hopefully some level of

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ageless wisdom or you know spiritual

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philosophies

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what was your background and how long

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have you been doing this

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i've been doing it for about i think

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2012 was actually a year a significant

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year where some things really clicked

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over for me

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i'm in my early 40s now so it wasn't

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like i was some star child about 12 and

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was

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you know getting downloads from astral

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dimensions but like

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you know i i definitely have had in the

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last it's now

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practically 2021 at the time of this

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conversation so i've had the last eight

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years of really

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starting to focus on developing my craft

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personally

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taking the body of work from a past

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career skill set which involved working

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in

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essentially the formal structures of

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entertainment industries

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in very high level professional

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capacities and then applying

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some of that professional capacity to

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this content that is

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of higher you know higher more

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sophisticated content

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hold on i gotta drill in there because

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you have to know

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that buzzers are going off in people's

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head

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and they're going to want to know more

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about your

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move your segway from the

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entertainment industry it's like yeah

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why do you give up a very high paying

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salary to do something else i mean it's

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usually it's not an overnight thing

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either why does somebody transition from

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one

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career air quotes to another but the

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most simple answer to this is that

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basically i wasn't using a large part of

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my skill set it's like i had a very um

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professional desirable job within

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framework within the high-end commercial

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industry in los

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angeles and uh basically the

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post-production industry of hollywood

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and i also had done some work on game

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cinematics because games are very

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these days you know the games are so

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cinematic these days that it's like

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cinema and games are influencing each

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other and it's all blending together

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so i did a variety of capacities within

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those fields and

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occasionally i will still freelance very

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rarely in that capacity it's not like we

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overnight turn off one spigot and go

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into something else and it's very

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technician-based it's very like assembly

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line based no matter what so

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it was like i spent years and years just

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feeling like i was out of alignment and

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depression in life is usually a call for

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course correction

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so i wasn't fully depressed i mean i

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certainly appreciate the

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levels of professional work ethic within

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various industries whatever your

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industry but most people know that

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with informal structures of an industry

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it's not going to fully utilize your

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creative skill set

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so at the same time i'm it's not like

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you know you completely

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turn one off and then move on to the

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other it's a very slow transition phase

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so

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i did find ways to create other income

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streams doing things that were more of

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independent substance and depth

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and then thereby it's like you leave a

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much more lasting body of work

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and you know a lot of my work focuses on

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this kind of trifecta of

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spiritual growth and then some level of

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equilibrium because equilibrium is a

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kind of a stepping stone to

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what's called the great work and then

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those external manifest

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manifestations which should lead to

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creative outputs

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so this this trifecta has led to me

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becoming much more individualized like i

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think we're all ultimately trying to do

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right you're trying to become much

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you're trying to have a much more

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lasting legacy with what you do

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in terms of a body of work or some level

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of perennial

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wisdom or insight or sharing you know

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making your life mean something not just

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be an assembly line robot

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at whatever glorified level that might

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be

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nice okay let's see the product of that

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if we will or one of the products of it

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indigenous people across the globe have

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used sacred plants and animal medicines

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for millennia

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to heal illuminate and connect them to

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the web of life

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traditionally each culture had a healer

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that works on behalf of their patients

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what we call the shaman and now

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we find ourselves in a global village is

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it any wonder that we need our own

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healers that understand the deep power

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and sacredness these ancient earth

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medicines can reveal

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my name's rak razam and i'm an author

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filmmaker and shamanic facilitator

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join me as i interview and sit in

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ceremony experiencing healing medicines

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with western shamans across the globe

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watch firsthand as i document a modern

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shamanic resurgence

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being passed on from indigenous tribes

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to a new wave of medicine people

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working in the 21st century

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this is shamans of the global village

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[Music]

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hey man that's a heck of a trailer

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teaser

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uh kind of tee it up thing there tell us

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what's going on there

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with you and rack and that first uh

286
00:09:44,630 --> 00:09:42,000
first one in the series that you did

287
00:09:47,030 --> 00:09:44,640
yeah so this show is basically um an

288
00:09:49,030 --> 00:09:47,040
independently made documentary series

289
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:49,040
and it's essentially a collaboration

290
00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:50,800
between raqqa zam whose voice you heard

291
00:09:53,110 --> 00:09:52,640
there as the host of the show and myself

292
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:53,120
and

293
00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:55,120
we created it in 2016 with just this

294
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:56,880
pilot episode on a very shoestring

295
00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:57,440
budget

296
00:10:00,949 --> 00:09:58,959
we went down to mexico with one of the

297
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:00,959
tribes there and shot it

298
00:10:03,590 --> 00:10:02,320
and it was a long process i mean we're

299
00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:03,600
kind of figuring out what it ultimately

300
00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:05,920
was going to be but then

301
00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:08,160
it came out really good as essentially a

302
00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:09,519
pilot episode of something that

303
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:11,600
is not professionally funded it's just

304
00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:13,440
something that's made independently

305
00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:15,200
and like all documentary filmmaking it's

306
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:16,640
just like a question about how does a

307
00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:18,000
documentary even get made in the first

308
00:10:21,269 --> 00:10:19,839
place so if i'm going to do something

309
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:21,279
outside the formal structures of the

310
00:10:23,829 --> 00:10:22,320
industry it's like

311
00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:23,839
and do something that's on a shoestring

312
00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:26,000
budget you might as well make something

313
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:27,440
that's essentially what i would say is

314
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:28,800
very paradigm destroying

315
00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:30,800
or very leading edge in terms of its

316
00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:32,000
wisdom and content and not

317
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,920
something that you know you would find

318
00:10:38,470 --> 00:10:35,519
at first

319
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:38,480
pull from a streaming service or

320
00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:40,320
necessarily a hollywood studio so you're

321
00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:41,440
going to get things in this

322
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:43,440
series that are i i don't want to say

323
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:44,800
necessarily the pretentious thing i've

324
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:46,560
like never been filmed before

325
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:47,519
but you're definitely going to see

326
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:50,000
things that are of a timeless way that

327
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:51,920
indigenous people have always used these

328
00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:54,480
these practices that necessarily haven't

329
00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:56,000
had a spotlight put on them

330
00:10:59,910 --> 00:10:57,120
right so it's like we might as well

331
00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:59,920
focus on something that is a actual

332
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:01,519
phenomenally

333
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:03,519
deep spiritual practice and combine that

334
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:05,040
with some level of high production value

335
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:06,160
to create something that's hopefully

336
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:08,000
novel and original

337
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:10,720
yeah i i i get all that and so um i

338
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:12,800
think it's great and i really enjoyed it

339
00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:15,920
and it was very well done

340
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,360
beautiful cinematography excellent

341
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,360
sound like all the stuff i mean you guys

342
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:23,279
just did did a great job on it

343
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:25,839
i think the the the shaman thing in the

344
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:28,959
entheogen thing one of the beauties

345
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:31,680
of the kind of explosion of the

346
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:33,360
alternative media is

347
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,760
we all kind of know that or at least

348
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:37,200
know that

349
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:40,160
much more than we ever did what you

350
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:41,519
brought that i think was particularly

351
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:42,000
interesting

352
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:44,320
we can dive into the the content a

353
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:45,200
little bit because i think

354
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:47,600
people find it really interesting in

355
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:49,120
episode one

356
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:51,680
you actually do you know the dmt they

357
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:53,360
get from the toads you know we've kind

358
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,160
of heard this

359
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:56,560
but you guys go there to this guy in the

360
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,040
sonoran desert this doctor

361
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,680
and you know show how they're actually

362
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:03,360
extracting it and then

363
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:05,760
processing it and i think people will

364
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:07,360
find that part of it really

365
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,639
interesting and then uh

366
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:12,880
heagle's really deep into it in a number

367
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,120
of a kind of anthropological

368
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,360
kind of exploration of you know the

369
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:19,600
cultures down here have lost this

370
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,760
but i can trace it back in some of the

371
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,959
art and stuff like that

372
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,040
i mean you really do go deep and then

373
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,639
you also go into kind of the

374
00:12:32,230 --> 00:12:28,079
experiential part

375
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:32,240
of people using this ceremonially

376
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,440
or but we don't know it is used in

377
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:37,040
ceremonial

378
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:39,920
fashion in the documentary but i don't

379
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:41,120
know that it's limited to that so

380
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,000
there's just

381
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:44,480
you know dive into that first what are

382
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:45,600
people

383
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:49,360
responding to in that episode one

384
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:53,120
and the the toad based dmt

385
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:55,920
experience yeah well let me i guess i

386
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:57,200
should back up a little bit because it's

387
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,240
relevant to your

388
00:13:01,910 --> 00:13:00,399
show and kind of a pre a question that

389
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:01,920
you would ask me before we hit record

390
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,720
here

391
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,079
which kind of blends into what i'm

392
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,160
expect uh skeptical about and it's

393
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:07,680
somewhat of like my law

394
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,240
a life philosophy or what we might call

395
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:12,240
like a cipher formula for decoding many

396
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:14,000
of the world's problems which is

397
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:15,920
what also somewhat encapsulates my work

398
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:17,120
and it's funny i've been writing an

399
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:18,800
essay on this and i'm

400
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:19,920
thinking it could be called something

401
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,000
like the bidirectional law of

402
00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:23,760
non-correspondence or the

403
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:25,600
scale law of obviousness or something

404
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,880
but this is

405
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:28,720
essentially my world premiere here so

406
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,240
chime on in also if you want to add

407
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:31,760
anything to this at any time but we have

408
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:32,240
a

409
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:35,920
the eons

410
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,200
where there's essentially small

411
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:39,760
structures that are natural systems

412
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:42,320
that have gone large over time right and

413
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:42,800
large

414
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,920
typically has led to massive problems

415
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:47,839
when more small structures were more the

416
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:48,959
natural way

417
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:50,560
so i kind of used this comparison of

418
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:52,880
like small to big or bottom up to top

419
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:53,680
down

420
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,839
or maybe like inner to outer or

421
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:56,959
sometimes you could say of it as like

422
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,720
decentralized decentralized or

423
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:00,320
individualization

424
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:02,560
versus collectivism or what i would

425
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,839
actually say from a spiritual

426
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,600
perspective is more esoteric versus

427
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,040
exoteric

428
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,600
so shamanism is is what i'm going to get

429
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:11,360
at which being with the being a key

430
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,639
correspondence to something that's

431
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:14,639
related to like small level spirituality

432
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,199
but

433
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:17,199
in terms of big structures in society

434
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:18,399
today we have something like

435
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,680
let's say if you're more right-leaning

436
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:21,360
in your politics a lot of more

437
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,800
right-leaning people have identified

438
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:24,240
something like big government

439
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:26,000
which is this centralized government

440
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,600
governmental form of power and

441
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:29,199
without getting you know a wash in the

442
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,560
spaghetti sauce or the politics of

443
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:32,160
something you know we can say that

444
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:34,320
that that can lead to any side of a

445
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:35,760
political aisle with you know what we

446
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:37,279
have in terms of like communism or

447
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,320
fascism or

448
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:40,480
even kind of post-truth corporate

449
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,279
consumer capitalism or plutocracy or

450
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,880
any sort of centralized governmental

451
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,720
power structure but what you don't

452
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:48,240
necessarily ever hear is then the other

453
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:49,360
side of this spectrum is big

454
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:51,040
corporations right we have a

455
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:52,959
massive consumerist commercial culture

456
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,079
these days

457
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:56,959
which max you know it's it's full it's

458
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,079
it's sole

459
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,560
uh profit or sole reason for existence

460
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,160
in a large structural reason is to

461
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,839
maximize quarterly profits we have

462
00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:05,760
boards of directors who

463
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:07,600
demand endless financial growth on a

464
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,320
planet of finite material resources

465
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:12,399
and you know these systems are are pro

466
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:14,160
at privatizing gains and socializing

467
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:14,959
losses

468
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:17,519
it's oftentimes done at the public purse

469
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:18,399
and you know we

470
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:20,720
it's a system that's used to this this

471
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,639
kind of governmental corporate

472
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:24,399
large-scale structure is designed to

473
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:26,079
just get working-class people in

474
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:27,839
fighting you know the two two sets of

475
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:29,040
people on opposite sides of the

476
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,320
political aisle that each make fifty

477
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:32,320
thousand dollars a year or even less

478
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,680
you know are infighting when they are

479
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,800
not looking up at the guy in the

480
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:36,320
high-rise building that's making eleven

481
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,839
thousand dollars an hour with a team of

482
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:39,440
lobbyists in washington

483
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,720
so we have this very much like

484
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:42,320
corporatized government dynamic and then

485
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,680
we can carry this big

486
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:46,000
scale system stuff into like big money

487
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:47,199
as well which like

488
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:49,920
we have a centralized federal reserve an

489
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:51,839
aristocratic class that you know is

490
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,720
engaged in

491
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,920
like medieval feudalism of what has left

492
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,839
us today within today's society

493
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:59,759
massive amounts of wealth and equality

494
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:00,880
you know there's a website called

495
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:02,800
lcurve.org that you can go check some of

496
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,720
that out that's very eroding to our

497
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,160
middle class and

498
00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:08,399
you know let alone poor people which is

499
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:10,000
indigenous people you know indigenous

500
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:11,440
people are very much on the bottom of a

501
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,279
social economic totem

502
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,880
and then we get into another big system

503
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,560
something like science and i know alex

504
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,399
you've talked a lot about science from

505
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,240
you know getting consciousness wrong in

506
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,560
the sense of that but a lot of

507
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,320
much of big science systems within

508
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:26,560
formal structures are very materialist

509
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:29,279
materialistic and demonstrably expensive

510
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:30,480
with the development of the

511
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:33,040
atomic bomb or the large hadron collider

512
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,680
and you know

513
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:35,360
a lot of scientists with informal

514
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:36,880
structures uh

515
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:38,720
cares seem to care as much about keeping

516
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,480
tenure as trying to actually really

517
00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:41,839
develop something that's on the leading

518
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:42,399
edge

519
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:43,839
and of course there's an old phrase that

520
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:46,000
says like science advances one funeral

521
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:47,040
at a time

522
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:48,800
and then in terms of something other bit

523
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:50,480
another big thing in terms of like big

524
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:51,199
religion

525
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:53,440
or what we might call big spirituality

526
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,120
we have this cult of religion

527
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:57,680
right which is this i think i i think at

528
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,399
one point i heard

529
00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:00,240
you say alex you you specifically that

530
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:01,440
the difference between a

531
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,959
difference between a cult and religion

532
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:04,559
is just the number of subscribers right

533
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,520
so we have a

534
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:07,280
religious construct that's essentially

535
00:17:10,150 --> 00:17:09,360
around today that's really just made by

536
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,160
man

537
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,640
to reduce larger spiritual concepts into

538
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:13,600
pre-packaged

539
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:17,199
sets of moral doctrine which people buy

540
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:18,160
wholesale

541
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:20,000
and we've had a very much imperial take

542
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,679
over that with constantine

543
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:23,760
you know weaponizing the bible in rome

544
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:24,799
and you know

545
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,160
turning things into like literal

546
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:28,319
readings of the scriptures

547
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,480
much of which are very barbaric at face

548
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:33,039
value and we have you know there's dogma

549
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:33,360
with

550
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,640
you know large g god and

551
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:38,799
the the outsourcing of things in terms

552
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,080
of like uh

553
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,720
heaven and hell or um outsourced

554
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:44,080
external

555
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,520
what's essentially happened is we've

556
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:47,840
extort we've externalized things into

557
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,840
corporealized deities

558
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:50,960
and these structures are very

559
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:52,960
patriarchal they're very

560
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:55,039
dominant they're very disempowering to

561
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:56,400
women you know you look at something

562
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:57,200
like

563
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:01,039
um the burqa and fundamentalist islam

564
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,480
and then within these formal large

565
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,799
structures large structures of religion

566
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,480
we have pedophilia

567
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,640
there's mega churches i was in a i went

568
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,320
to a wedding recently in alabama that

569
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,480
was at a mega church and oh my gosh dude

570
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,240
it was like the most commercial

571
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,679
the place looked more like a shopping

572
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:17,440
mall than it did to do with anything

573
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:19,200
within spirituality

574
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:21,280
and um i i occasionally will also get

575
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,320
these

576
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:25,120
uh advert adverts on linkedin which is

577
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:25,760
you know this

578
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:27,520
work based social network for job

579
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,960
postings that i kind of peek at and

580
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:30,320
every once in a while with a bunch of

581
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:31,760
corporations or big tech companies

582
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:33,120
they'll be like a church

583
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:34,640
that's seeking out something so that

584
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:36,240
that is not a spiritual entity that's a

585
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,520
commercial entity

586
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:39,840
and we have you know televangelist

587
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:41,120
preachers that do this massive

588
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,160
fundraising and

589
00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:44,400
have huge 14 000 square foot houses in

590
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:46,400
texas and fly on mega jests

591
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:48,799
you know we have you see the negative

592
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:50,240
aspects of big religion

593
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,000
within the politics of the vatican or

594
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,840
something like israel

595
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,919
and then what that essentially is is

596
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:57,840
separation between the exoteric the

597
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:58,400
outer

598
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:01,760
forms of religious doctrine and dogma

599
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,520
versus something that's more esoteric so

600
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:05,600
then if we take these small systems if

601
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:06,240
we take

602
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:07,919
the same look at all these structures

603
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:10,559
from a small perspective like looking at

604
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:12,160
something like small government

605
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:13,280
you know we go back to government we

606
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:14,720
look at like small local community

607
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,360
governance

608
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:17,679
right knowing our local representatives

609
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,080
uh funding your local schools local

610
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:22,160
library local infrastructure

611
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,600
yeah but that's all [\h__\h] that

612
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:26,000
doesn't that doesn't work i mean

613
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,520
you know what the thing as i was

614
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,919
listening to um

615
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:32,480
that when i was watching the movie and i

616
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:34,080
was struck by

617
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:37,919
you know kind of the politicalization of

618
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:38,559
it the

619
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:41,600
the unavoidable i mean you

620
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:45,200
i respect that you're attempting to

621
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:48,400
grapple with rather than sidestep the

622
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:49,440
political

623
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:52,640
issues but i don't understand why the

624
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:54,880
hell so many of you guys

625
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:58,400
you guys in your camp in the esoteric

626
00:20:04,789 --> 00:19:58,799
camp

627
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:04,799
myself part of

628
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:07,520
but why so many of you are left-leaning

629
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:08,640
progressives

630
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:11,919
and why you're not stark raving

631
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:15,039
over-the-top libertarians i mean do you

632
00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:15,440
do

633
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:19,480
realize that that they are right now

634
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:22,799
conspiring to take away all your rights

635
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,000
to access

636
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:26,480
all of this stuff and that just because

637
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,440
obama

638
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:29,440
is going to stand up there and take the

639
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:30,799
[\h__\h] vaccine

640
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,720
in the arm it is the ultimate play

641
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:37,120
and the the i don't understand from a

642
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:38,559
political standpoint to kind of cut

643
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:39,919
through the whole essay

644
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:42,400
why you're not standing shoulder to

645
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:43,120
shoulder

646
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:46,640
with the gun toting prepper in austin

647
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,360
texas

648
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:49,280
i'm not a gun-toting prepper in austin

649
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:50,480
texas but

650
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:54,640
i understand that sensibility

651
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,000
much more than i understand this oh well

652
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,720
you know this globalization is really

653
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:02,159
going to work out

654
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,960
in the end kind of thing yeah i mean i

655
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:06,559
would say that from a centralized

656
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:07,840
perspective of any sort of power

657
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:08,960
structure you know you don't want to

658
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:10,080
globalize things

659
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:11,600
i would probably it's funny i might

660
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:12,720
identify a little bit more with the

661
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,240
gun-toting

662
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:16,559
person in texas as well being uh you

663
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:18,080
know not by any means against the second

664
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:19,360
amendment but i mean i agree dude it's

665
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,240
like i don't

666
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,919
i don't mean to make it a specific

667
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:23,520
political thing that that wasn't the

668
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:24,400
intention

669
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,240
but what i what i am trying to just

670
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:28,080
correlate is the difference between like

671
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:29,600
a small structure versus a large

672
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:31,120
structure regardless of

673
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,200
and keeping that as i would hope a

674
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,600
political as as possible

675
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:37,360
and don't don't get me wrong now i

676
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:38,559
appreciate where you're coming from and

677
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:40,080
i really mean that and sometimes

678
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:41,840
i don't know i come across the the wrong

679
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:44,240
way i i'm engaged

680
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,400
in this conversation meaning that i

681
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:47,919
respect where you're coming from

682
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:49,679
and i want to dialogue with you i want

683
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:51,520
to know where you're coming from more

684
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:54,799
so if i am pushing against you

685
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:57,600
that's okay it's just to get to this

686
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,000
kind

687
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:00,559
of uh next level and and i so i guess i

688
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:02,000
would return you to this point because i

689
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:02,799
think it's

690
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,799
really salient to the work that you're

691
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:06,240
doing

692
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:09,520
i have become rather conspiratorial

693
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,799
over the years and science is what drew

694
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,480
me to conspiracy

695
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:17,200
because i didn't understand biological

696
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,960
robot in a meaningless universe it

697
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,720
seemed kind of crazy to me

698
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,559
and it was only by investigating it that

699
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:25,280
i realized the the absurdity of that

700
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,559
and you're dealing with a lot of

701
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:29,280
absurdity in your film your film is

702
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,960
uh constantly brushing against and

703
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:35,120
directly kind of calling out this

704
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:36,400
craziness

705
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:38,960
that we live in and i love in episode

706
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,440
one

707
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,679
you know he's saying we we do live in a

708
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:43,679
crazy world so you have to enter into

709
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:44,720
that

710
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:47,360
space first before you can even consider

711
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:49,039
the shamanistic kind of way

712
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:52,799
but i i digress slightly science

713
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:56,640
and this uh in your face materialism

714
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:59,520
contradiction to consciousness is what

715
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:01,280
led me to conspiracy

716
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:04,159
but now that i'm in conspiracy what i

717
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:04,480
see

718
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,640
as conspiratorial is this desire to

719
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:11,200
control our consciousness and that

720
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:11,919
desire

721
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:15,200
seems to be directly in conflict with

722
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,679
ultimately where you're going so you can

723
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:19,919
say that the un has given this guy the

724
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:21,200
past to drive around

725
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:23,360
[\h__\h] that [\h__\h] it ain't gonna happen

726
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:24,720
they're gonna try and take

727
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:27,679
all this [\h__\h] away from you and that

728
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,720
isn't even

729
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,799
at this point they've already said put

730
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:32,400
the [\h__\h] mask on

731
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:36,080
i mean there is no more dramatic

732
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:39,360
in your face again kind of

733
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,080
reckoning of of what's coming then put

734
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:44,080
the [\h__\h] mask on and we don't need

735
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:45,840
any science to support it

736
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:48,880
we're doing it by edict how do you think

737
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,080
uh you know toad gland dmt

738
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:54,720
and the peyote is going to stand up to

739
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:55,120
that

740
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:58,240
it it it can't it's in a much larger

741
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:01,279
context of control yeah

742
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:04,000
i mean again you're talking about the a

743
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,600
centralized power structure that's you

744
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:07,279
know dictating something on

745
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,200
on us uh from a perspective of what is a

746
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:13,200
larger scale system yeah and i mean i

747
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:14,799
would say in terms of like

748
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,080
a small systems dynamic with science

749
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:20,080
is that there is a difference between a

750
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,440
mandate from on high

751
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:23,200
top down versus like somebody that is

752
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:24,720
within a

753
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:26,480
personal science dynamic right like an

754
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:28,080
independent researcher that's doing

755
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:29,840
things with an open-ended discussion

756
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,200
related to science

757
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:33,200
maybe working more off the beaten path

758
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,480
with their

759
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:37,279
exploration within something you know

760
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,159
they might

761
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:40,240
respect the scientific method but then

762
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:41,679
they know that within

763
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:44,159
the structure of where they're working

764
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,600
they can't necessarily do the full

765
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,760
spectrum of their scientific research

766
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:50,240
but then they're knowing that on their

767
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,840
own they can do this type of thing so i

768
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:53,120
would see that i mean i think that we

769
00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,720
saw that within somebody like nikola

770
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:56,720
tesla or wilhelm reich

771
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:58,799
and that i would even go so far to say

772
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,039
dude that ancient practices

773
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:04,080
something like even astrology or alchemy

774
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:05,760
you know al chemistry

775
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:08,159
were also engaging in the scientific

776
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:10,159
method so there's a difference between

777
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,240
doing something more independently

778
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:14,400
that's more kind of metaphysically based

779
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:16,880
versus something that's yes the negative

780
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:18,960
aspects of what you just hinted on

781
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:21,200
but um i mean in terms of also like

782
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:22,799
let's say let's look to something like a

783
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:24,320
smaller systems

784
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,400
dynamic within spirituality for example

785
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,320
so rather than looking at like

786
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:30,640
literal holy books as these black and

787
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,840
white doctrines

788
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:34,000
that are to be handed on down we then

789
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,679
can look at something that's maybe

790
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,919
existed from the eons like myth and

791
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:39,440
allegory and this starts to get into

792
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,120
more shamanic based practices right

793
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:43,120
which is the esoteric core

794
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,720
of um many many faiths through time even

795
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:47,919
prior to what would be the

796
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:51,360
abrahamic faiths and i would say that

797
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,240
you know you look at at something like

798
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:56,159
formal structured religion a lot of that

799
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:56,960
has been

800
00:26:01,110 --> 00:26:00,080
a a co-opting and takeover of shamanic

801
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,120
practices

802
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:04,240
that are from way many eons ago right or

803
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:05,840
other practices that were more people

804
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:08,320
based from the land like the druids or

805
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,240
you know more gnostic based practices

806
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,400
even something like the witches

807
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:14,640
of the past which a lot of people have

808
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:16,480
this kind of hollywoodized

809
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:18,000
version of what a witch was from the

810
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,200
past when in reality it was just

811
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:21,600
typically a more land-owning woman

812
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:23,120
and then shamanism this starts to get

813
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:24,720
into more shamanic based practices and

814
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,760
for people that don't really have

815
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:27,679
reference points on what shamanism is or

816
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:28,320
what it's

817
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:31,200
and to kind of lead into what your

818
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,720
questions about made is that

819
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:34,320
you know shamanism is as old as the

820
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:35,760
hills and it's about

821
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,600
a spiritual practice that's directly

822
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,440
related to your personal direct

823
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:41,679
experience and connection with you know

824
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:42,960
gnosis or

825
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,799
some level with the with the divine and

826
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:46,080
so that's why

827
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:47,520
i think it's nice to just kind of put

828
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:49,679
this encapsulating philosophy on

829
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:51,039
something for people to have reference

830
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,000
points and why

831
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:54,480
a lot of my work focuses on these themes

832
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:56,559
of hopefully what is some level of

833
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,200
uh ancient or ageless wisdom uh which

834
00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:01,120
gets into direct experiences with higher

835
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:02,480
states of consciousness

836
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:03,760
and that's something that we've seen

837
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,120
through ancient civilizations in the

838
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,880
past and why

839
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:08,240
outside of just the first specific

840
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,480
episode of the show and the fact that at

841
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:11,760
the time of this recording we've done

842
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:12,559
two episodes

843
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:13,919
of making it because it's something that

844
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:16,320
we're making slow drip each episode can

845
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,000
be as complex to make as a featured

846
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:20,159
documentary film

847
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,720
the importance of of shamanism and why

848
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,480
it's a crucial dynamic to a healthy

849
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:26,480
community of civil or civilization as we

850
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:27,440
say is that

851
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:29,600
there's two specific reasons why people

852
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:32,080
might engage in shamanic practice

853
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:34,320
is one is for healing which isn't just

854
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:35,919
necessarily a physical healing it can

855
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:37,360
also be a mental healing

856
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,200
but then also for the expansion of

857
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,880
consciousness and those two things are

858
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:42,559
kind of correlated with mental healing

859
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,840
and expansion

860
00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:45,360
because yes we do live in a very

861
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:47,679
contractive culture so that's why it's a

862
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:48,080
it's

863
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:51,440
rediscovered right now that's

864
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:54,880
existed through much of time

865
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:58,399
so miles let me kind of continue to poke

866
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,679
away in my

867
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:01,679
skeptico style here because i sent you a

868
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:03,200
couple of shows

869
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,880
that i've done on um shamanism

870
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,520
and one in particular it's very very

871
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:11,279
interesting to me and i think it

872
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,159
kind of in a roundabout way gets to this

873
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,000
thing we're ping-ponging back and forth

874
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:17,679
but i feel like we're not really nailing

875
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:19,520
down so i interviewed this guy

876
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:22,799
dr brian hayden super

877
00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:26,480
well respected you know in the

878
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:30,799
canadian anthropology royal society

879
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:34,000
so credentials and stuff like that and

880
00:28:40,909 --> 00:28:37,200
he wrote a book about

881
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:40,919
um i guess you could say shamanic

882
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:43,600
self-aggrandizement so he went and

883
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,320
studied

884
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:47,760
all these native cultures groups

885
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:51,200
and he studied the shamans in them

886
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:54,000
and he said a lot of times what this is

887
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:54,799
all about

888
00:29:01,389 --> 00:28:58,159
is this sage on the stage

889
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:01,399
which are all way to milly with cultish

890
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:02,799
self-aggrandizement

891
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,360
where the the shaman goes into the goes

892
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:07,200
into the sweat lodge and comes out and

893
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:08,320
says

894
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,440
hey niles man i seen it

895
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,760
i talked to the spirits and dawg you

896
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,760
won't believe what they told me

897
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:17,679
they told me that i should be hooking up

898
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,120
with your wife

899
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,440
all month next month and that's going to

900
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:23,360
give you some great powers and you're

901
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:24,640
going to go out there and you're really

902
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:25,120
going to

903
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:28,480
hit it on the next uh big hunt

904
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:31,120
so this is an anthropologist going this

905
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:32,960
is just what the data shows this is

906
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:35,760
what's out there this is what happens

907
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:39,039
now my pushback i think that's in

908
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,039
i think that's an important point that's

909
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:42,880
an important point that's a data point

910
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,159
and this guy's done a good job of

911
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:45,840
documenting it

912
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:48,559
the the flip side of that which i was

913
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:49,200
pushing him

914
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:53,039
on is that okay but brian

915
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:56,159
are there really extended realms of

916
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:57,840
consciousness where these spirit

917
00:30:02,230 --> 00:29:58,799
entities do

918
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,240
exist and he has to go well you know i

919
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,919
don't know i've investigated and then

920
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,520
if you push him hard enough he goes yeah

921
00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:07,120
i do believe they are

922
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:09,480
he says professionally as an

923
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:10,960
anthropologist

924
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:13,760
inside of my community talking the talk

925
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:14,480
that i'm

926
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:17,520
forced to [\h__\h] talk i can never say

927
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:18,399
that

928
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:22,240
so this is a both and kind of what

929
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,919
look at shamanism that i guess i want to

930
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:27,200
throw on the table

931
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:31,120
because it's not all

932
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:35,520
you know unicorns and rainbows

933
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,960
absolutely not there's some really

934
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:38,640
negative things within even tribal

935
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,919
cultures you know i mean

936
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,440
in the two times i've gone into

937
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:43,200
indigenous tribes they have

938
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,640
beautiful things about them they have

939
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,720
this rich animistic history of

940
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:48,720
living in balance with nature and

941
00:30:51,909 --> 00:30:50,000
growing up with that and having

942
00:30:53,909 --> 00:30:51,919
more of an ecological framework and an

943
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:53,919
animistic mindset on

944
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:56,559
on living in harmony but then also they

945
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:58,080
have major they can have major problems

946
00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:59,919
as well they can still be patriarchal

947
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:01,600
and have negative aspects there's

948
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:05,919
you know really uh douchey wishy-washy

949
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:09,519
gropy you know uh pseudo shamans that

950
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:12,240
are in santa monica yoga classes versus

951
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:12,720
some

952
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:14,799
that's a huge difference between an

953
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:17,279
actual and they're not just in santa

954
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:18,080
monica they're

955
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:21,200
down in the in the in the villages that

956
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,640
you drove through

957
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,960
with the plastic coverings on the window

958
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:26,640
they're right there too

959
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,919
they're absolutely and it's a good point

960
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,600
you raised because just like within a

961
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:32,000
religious structure i mean sometimes you

962
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:33,440
know we'll see within

963
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:35,440
you know i i always i always oftentimes

964
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:37,360
use the sturgeon's law dynamic of ninety

965
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,799
percent of everything is crap so if

966
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:40,320
something's real it can totally take the

967
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:41,519
pressure but within

968
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:43,200
formal religious structures too i mean

969
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,720
it's not fair to say that all of it's

970
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:46,080
garbage every once in a while you will

971
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,519
find a fantastic

972
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,000
person that is within working within

973
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:52,080
theology and you know a lot of the base

974
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,679
original christ teachings are very

975
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:55,919
beautiful teaching so to give something

976
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,480
a more mature and sophisticated populace

977
00:32:01,269 --> 00:32:00,480
recognizes subtlety and nuance and we

978
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,279
can see that

979
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,960
a lot of the times when structures are

980
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:04,559
so um

981
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:06,960
misappropriated and and there's been a

982
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:08,960
big marketing job over time that's not

983
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,519
good

984
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:11,200
so within shamanism which is something

985
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,880
that has always been more of a bottom-up

986
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,320
dynamic with like

987
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:16,720
tribal indigenous people you know there

988
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:17,760
there's been a lot of

989
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,640
uh criticizing of that of the eons for

990
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:22,480
the negative aspects of what goes along

991
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:23,440
with it and

992
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,880
it's very true that you know when you

993
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:26,399
get involved with these things it's very

994
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:27,440
serious stuff

995
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:29,840
there's a huge reason why you know

996
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,360
shamanic

997
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,960
we use that we use the proper turn of

998
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:34,640
calling them an entheogen instead of

999
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,440
just a

1000
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:37,360
psychedelic drug which has a lot of

1001
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:39,120
negative connotations around it but

1002
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:41,200
entheogen just means awaken the divine

1003
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,399
with from within

1004
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:44,080
but it's important to if somebody's

1005
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,440
going to have an ethiogenic experience

1006
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:47,039
to not just do it wishy-washy in a

1007
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,240
framework that's

1008
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:50,640
not a proper sudden setting or container

1009
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:51,840
to do it within

1010
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,000
and ideally within some lineage of

1011
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,720
somebody that has a proper transmission

1012
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,559
with the indigenous people and so that's

1013
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,320
what we try to do within the show is

1014
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:04,000
highlight somebody that has been

1015
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,919
trained within the the lineage of the

1016
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:09,600
tribal people and hopefully the tribal

1017
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,399
elders

1018
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:12,080
and um you know nobody's perfect but

1019
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,440
that's kind of the there's a huge

1020
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,880
difference in who you highlight because

1021
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:16,240
it's just like going to the doctor it's

1022
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:17,039
like you want to

1023
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:18,399
vet who you're going to work with before

1024
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:20,320
you have an experience with somebody

1025
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:23,600
yeah but dr octavio on the first uh

1026
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:26,880
episode he doesn't have that lineage

1027
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:30,320
he i have to say comes across as

1028
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,080
an incredibly deep and uh just

1029
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,240
profoundly connected kind of person i

1030
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:37,679
don't know what he is but he has a

1031
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:38,799
background of

1032
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:40,640
drug addiction as well which when he

1033
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:42,399
when that was revealed was kind of

1034
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:44,799
surprising to me but you know actions

1035
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:46,240
speak louder than words

1036
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,320
his long standing

1037
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,799
work with uh all sorts of different

1038
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:53,679
people who

1039
00:33:57,029 --> 00:33:56,559
disenfranchised i hate that word down

1040
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:57,039
there but

1041
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,360
you know he seems to be walking the walk

1042
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:01,200
and that's awesome but

1043
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,919
he doesn't have that lineage so i i just

1044
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:06,240
you know i'm not just trying to be it

1045
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:08,399
it's just not that simple in my

1046
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:09,280
experience and

1047
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:11,599
let me before i before i even let you

1048
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,280
respond to that i'll throw another one

1049
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:15,359
on the table that i think

1050
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,119
again draws that out a little bit

1051
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:19,520
further you reference rick strassmann dr

1052
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:21,599
rick strassman and a lot of people

1053
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:24,879
who've having been a cursory knowledge

1054
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:25,280
of

1055
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,240
dmt in the spirit molecule know his book

1056
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:29,679
in his documentary

1057
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:32,399
of that name but look where stressman is

1058
00:34:35,230 --> 00:34:32,960
now

1059
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:35,240
he's been off for years doing this

1060
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:38,480
esoteric christianity kind of thing

1061
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:43,200
in a very uh i don't want to be very

1062
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,480
kind of hard to understand way

1063
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:48,800
he seems to be somebody who's completely

1064
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:50,960
taken in a different direction

1065
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:54,399
add to the fact that his actual

1066
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:58,320
research laboratory work with dmt

1067
00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:01,119
it stands in contrast with a lot of the

1068
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:02,520
set and setting

1069
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:05,920
ritualization of uh ayahuasca

1070
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:09,119
and other dmt traditions so there's a

1071
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:10,640
lot to unpack here

1072
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:13,599
it's not it's it can't be packed into an

1073
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:16,800
hour documentary which you did but

1074
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:18,320
yeah i mean that's why it would ideally

1075
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:19,520
be a serious but it's a good point you

1076
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:21,680
raise because i mean spirituality

1077
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,960
i i would i would be so bold as to put

1078
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,240
forth the dynamic that

1079
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:28,400
a spiritual life is a truthful life and

1080
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:29,359
ideally

1081
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,920
in the difficulties of modern society

1082
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:33,040
today it's like we're not going to go

1083
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,240
back to all

1084
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:36,240
necessarily solely chopping wood and

1085
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,760
carrying water and living in this

1086
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:39,599
way that indigenous people from the past

1087
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:41,440
have lived but they had a great

1088
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:42,480
connection

1089
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,560
from the past and wisdom that we can

1090
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:46,560
still glean some insight with

1091
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:47,920
in terms of the way that they had a

1092
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:50,079
relationship with essentially power

1093
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:52,000
plants and animals and those

1094
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:55,119
those ability to have a huge uh

1095
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,160
and very quick

1096
00:36:01,190 --> 00:36:00,000
example for having giving people an

1097
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:01,200
experience that's an

1098
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:03,920
an initiatory experience and in much of

1099
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:05,599
today's society you know we have no

1100
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,000
level of initiation into adulthood

1101
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,800
no level of like spirit quest or some

1102
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:12,079
level i mean it seems like the only

1103
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,760
initiation that college kids have these

1104
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:15,599
days is like drinking alcohol you know

1105
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,960
mind contracting

1106
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:18,960
uh sanctioned liquid drug alcohol out of

1107
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:20,320
red plastic cups

1108
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:22,400
so i i would the reason that we

1109
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,359
highlight

1110
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:25,599
uh the importance of something like

1111
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:27,760
anthogenic use along the spiritual path

1112
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:28,960
it's not the only

1113
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:30,560
it's not an end-all be-all of your

1114
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:32,000
spiritual life it's just an important

1115
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,560
key

1116
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,079
perhaps a moment of some level of

1117
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:36,400
initiation into higher states of

1118
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,040
knowledge or

1119
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,440
insight or depth is that it gives you

1120
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,280
that level of

1121
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:42,960
some level of stair stepping into

1122
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:44,720
adulthood much like the native americans

1123
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,160
did with various

1124
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,359
initiatory practices or also um

1125
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:52,320
with how how many civilizations of

1126
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:52,880
ancient

1127
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:55,280
time did this where you know there'd be

1128
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:55,920
the

1129
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:59,200
delphi

1130
00:37:02,150 --> 00:37:00,800
where they would have these people would

1131
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:02,160
pilgrimage to these places and have

1132
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,560
these

1133
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:04,880
massive life-transforming experiences

1134
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:06,079
that aren't gonna you know make your

1135
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:07,599
life perfect by any means

1136
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:10,160
but um based upon what you put in is

1137
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:11,680
what you can get out of them

1138
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:15,200
and if you if you are really having

1139
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:18,000
massive negative suffering in your life

1140
00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:19,680
these things aren't an end-all be-all

1141
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:21,680
and they're not certainly a one-stop

1142
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:23,920
shop but they have a potential for a

1143
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,520
huge amount of

1144
00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:27,359
individual healing if somebody is ready

1145
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:28,960
to to heal themselves or

1146
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:31,440
do the work on themselves so that's

1147
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:33,119
oftentimes why we highlight that they

1148
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,599
are so important

1149
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:37,680
and yeah that's that's what much of my

1150
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:39,599
work has has oftentimes touched on with

1151
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:40,240
the show and

1152
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:43,280
elsewhere in conversations

1153
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:48,000
so what what do you make of the

1154
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,119
of the science that is now emerging

1155
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:53,839
surrounding entheogens i think a lot of

1156
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:54,800
people

1157
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:59,040
including myself are encouraged that

1158
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:00,800
you know some people are looking at this

1159
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:03,599
seriously and studying it seriously

1160
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:05,920
because we don't want to throw out some

1161
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,119
of the things we can

1162
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:09,440
learn from the scientific method and how

1163
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:10,240
to control

1164
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,680
experiments and how to test whether

1165
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,440
because claims are being made that this

1166
00:38:19,990 --> 00:38:16,960
is

1167
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,000
you know uh like the like the claims

1168
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:21,839
that you just made it can be

1169
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:24,880
efficacious in clearing depression for

1170
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:25,680
example

1171
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:28,079
it can be efficacious in helping people

1172
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:29,760
overcome drug addictions

1173
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:32,800
well these are that that should be an

1174
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,240
answerable question you know we can do

1175
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,920
rather kind of well understood

1176
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:39,680
controlled studies right now and get to

1177
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,720
the answers

1178
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:43,200
of that what do you think of that

1179
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:44,000
science

1180
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:47,200
of uh of theogens which is you can find

1181
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:48,400
all over the internet where people are

1182
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:49,680
having serious

1183
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,200
you know conferences at medical like the

1184
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,680
university of pennsylvania and their

1185
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:58,000
doctors and phds who are getting

1186
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:59,440
together talking about this stuff

1187
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:01,359
is that of interest to you at all and

1188
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:03,760
how do you see that fitting into

1189
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:06,640
your your view of the world yeah it is

1190
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:07,280
that interest

1191
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:08,640
it is very much an interest and it's a

1192
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:10,079
good point you raise and to kind of go

1193
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:11,680
back to your previous question alex

1194
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,040
which i didn't do a very good job of

1195
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:15,200
asking when or answering when you have a

1196
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:16,480
clinical setting

1197
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:18,079
it's a lot different when you know

1198
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:20,400
things have been put into a scientific

1199
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,839
dynamic where you're doing like some

1200
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,200
sort of research program

1201
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:26,400
in a in a more medical based building

1202
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,960
versus doing something that's more in a

1203
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:30,079
tribal setting or

1204
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:31,920
if it's very unlikely that somebody

1205
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,560
would have a direct tribal connection to

1206
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:36,640
a shamanic experience but it is likely

1207
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:37,839
that there's this

1208
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:40,640
you know people are doing more like uh

1209
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,040
you know

1210
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:43,839
psychedelic tourism i gotta kind of bump

1211
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:44,800
in there a little bit

1212
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:47,680
because uh strassman's work contradicts

1213
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:48,480
that right

1214
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:50,480
because strassman's work he's just

1215
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,240
pulling in people off the street

1216
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:54,560
more or less in new mexico and giving

1217
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:55,760
him dmt

1218
00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:58,000
and they're going to the amazon in that

1219
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,920
extended realm and they're seeing the

1220
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:00,800
same

1221
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:03,280
spirit beings and they're seeing some of

1222
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:03,839
the same

1223
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:06,400
they're they're also seeing e.t which i

1224
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:08,240
don't know you don't really talk about

1225
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:10,000
non-human intelligence

1226
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,440
but they're also seeing the other thing

1227
00:40:16,309 --> 00:40:13,599
that i guess is is missing

1228
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:16,319
and it was curiously missing in a lot of

1229
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:16,800
the

1230
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:21,599
some people see this connection with

1231
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,280
this extended realm

1232
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,359
as being much more connected and

1233
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:27,280
mediated by

1234
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:30,960
spirit entities real entities that do

1235
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:33,680
have certain powers and attributes and

1236
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:34,640
have some

1237
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:36,880
role to play in this at least some

1238
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,319
people believe in

1239
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:40,880
in interfacing between that extended

1240
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,359
realm and this realm so

1241
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:46,000
you know three points i guess i'm making

1242
00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:46,560
there

1243
00:40:53,069 --> 00:40:50,079
one is why are strassmans people

1244
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:53,079
connecting with some of the same

1245
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:54,800
amazonian

1246
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:58,480
shamanistic entities in their experience

1247
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,560
in new mexico when they don't even have

1248
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:02,160
any background in that

1249
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:05,760
and then two what are we to make of the

1250
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:09,040
of the spiritual uh part of this and the

1251
00:41:12,309 --> 00:41:09,599
spirit

1252
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:12,319
entities that many are reporting are

1253
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:14,079
connected with this realm because you're

1254
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:16,240
kind of doing the blob of consciousness

1255
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,800
white light there's just one thing that

1256
00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:20,640
don't pay any attention to the spirits

1257
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:21,520
thing

1258
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:23,359
well that's that's for episode one and

1259
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:24,960
just to give some context

1260
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:26,960
the way that we we hope to structure the

1261
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,880
show going forward is that

1262
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,280
each episode focuses on a specific

1263
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:33,040
medicine with a specific medicine

1264
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:34,240
practitioner and

1265
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:35,680
for those that aren't familiar i mean

1266
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:37,599
there's different each of the different

1267
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,119
entheogens has kind of a different

1268
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:41,200
flavor to them so it's been spoken of

1269
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:42,720
for example that like psilocybin

1270
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,319
mushrooms are very like

1271
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:47,280
cosmic and alien and uh there's two

1272
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:48,079
types two

1273
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,560
two primary types of dmt one which is

1274
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:51,599
found in the uh

1275
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,000
ayahuasca vine which is uh nndmt is very

1276
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:58,400
cosmic and i'm sorry it's not cosmic but

1277
00:42:02,790 --> 00:41:59,599
it's very like

1278
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:02,800
jungle uh feminine energy

1279
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:06,240
uh ecological energetics and then

1280
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:08,160
the other type of dmt which we highlight

1281
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,839
which you mentioned as the white light

1282
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:11,440
in episode one is very much like this

1283
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:12,160
kind of

1284
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:14,560
hadron of hyperspace that merges into

1285
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:15,280
the

1286
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,680
gaian you know godhead type dynamic of

1287
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,440
fusing back into the light

1288
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:21,119
and then other other indigenous

1289
00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:22,480
medicines such as like

1290
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:26,560
peyote and and um the cacti

1291
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,000
have a very kind of masculine uh desert

1292
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:32,079
energy to them and it's probably several

1293
00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:33,119
things of

1294
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:35,200
what you hit on there one is probably

1295
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,400
like the

1296
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,400
the history and the genealogy of your

1297
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:40,480
people where your people come from

1298
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,240
um what you resonate with in terms of

1299
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,240
which medicine maybe your ancestors

1300
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,560
practiced with there's us being you know

1301
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:48,480
of european descent alex you know there

1302
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:48,880
were

1303
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,280
practices in scandinavia from eons back

1304
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:53,119
that use like the amino muscarian

1305
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,240
mushroom which is that

1306
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:56,160
black and white i'm sorry that red and

1307
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:57,760
white mushroom which we see on all the

1308
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:59,520
christmas cards and things like that

1309
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,880
so those are things that based upon

1310
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,480
where you're probably from you have some

1311
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:03,599
resonance with

1312
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:07,280
and then also um in terms of yes you're

1313
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:08,480
there's probably something with the

1314
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:11,520
dynamic of your people's history and the

1315
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:12,880
resonances of

1316
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:14,319
the kind of reality tunnel of your

1317
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,560
culture from what you get based upon the

1318
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:18,480
experience so if you were to take and

1319
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:19,520
if you were to have some sort of

1320
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:21,200
ayahuasca experience even in some sort

1321
00:43:23,829 --> 00:43:22,720
of starchy clinical setting you'll

1322
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:23,839
probably still get some of those

1323
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:25,599
resonances of the rainforest

1324
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:26,960
especially if that's maybe where your

1325
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:29,599
kind of original ancestors were from

1326
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,839
a lot of the work that i'm grounded in

1327
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:33,040
in extended

1328
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,680
consciousness stuff is grounded in the

1329
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:37,520
near-death experience science

1330
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:40,640
and the one thing i like about that is

1331
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:44,160
we can get collect that data in a rather

1332
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:45,520
systematic way

1333
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:48,640
and look at it in a scientific way if

1334
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:49,599
you will

1335
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:52,160
and it comes back and it's all about

1336
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:53,200
spirit entities

1337
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,640
it's about uh ancestors that are there

1338
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:58,800
in spirit form that are waiting

1339
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:01,839
it's about for other people it's about

1340
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:02,880
other entities

1341
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,720
that are dark and malevolent and so i i

1342
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:08,880
just don't like softening up

1343
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:12,160
on the the edge of the question which is

1344
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,400
are there are there spirit entities in

1345
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,240
these extended consciousness realms and

1346
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:18,000
what do we mean by that when we say

1347
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:18,880
there are

1348
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:21,440
spirit entities because we hear this a

1349
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,119
lot you know and you'll hear a lot this

1350
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,880
from science types that are one step

1351
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,119
away from really denying consciousness

1352
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:29,280
and saying consciousness is an illusion

1353
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:30,800
and they'll say well you know maybe

1354
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,160
you're patterned by that

1355
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:35,359
and you'll see jesus if your parents

1356
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,640
were raised you

1357
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,040
well that's just speculation now that's

1358
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:40,880
a question we could ask and

1359
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,319
and research but we we we can't uh just

1360
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,079
use that as the default answer oh of

1361
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,160
course it's just a cultural overlay

1362
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:50,400
well go and prove it and go prove why

1363
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,079
people in other cultures

1364
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:54,560
see jesus and go prove what people in

1365
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:55,359
this culture

1366
00:45:02,790 --> 00:44:59,440
see buddha or see some

1367
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,800
indigenous uh uh god thing it's it's not

1368
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:04,000
as clean as people

1369
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,240
like to make it out and uh gregory

1370
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:08,880
shushan is my dr greg shushan is my

1371
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:09,839
go-to source

1372
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:12,880
for that yeah well spirituality i mean

1373
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:13,359
the real

1374
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:16,160
spiritual connection to some higher

1375
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,160
vibratory space or higher data

1376
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,920
connection whatever flavor that's coming

1377
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,359
in whether or not it's

1378
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:24,240
some you know meditative experience that

1379
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:25,520
you're having or you've been

1380
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:28,079
hypnotized or you've undergone some sort

1381
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:29,119
of you know

1382
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,920
intake of a shamanic medicine it's all

1383
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:33,440
spiritual of course i mean it's all

1384
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:34,560
connecting you to some

1385
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:37,680
level of higher gnosis or higher

1386
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:39,839
consciousness and

1387
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:41,839
we're dancing around this is there are

1388
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,230
yes i mean certain things have happened

1389
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:48,000
where people i think people get

1390
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:50,720
what their framework what it's it's it's

1391
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:52,079
like a lot of these things don't

1392
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,680
necessarily give you what you want but

1393
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,119
they give you what you need

1394
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,960
so sometimes people have had can have

1395
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,640
very trying experiences and there's a

1396
00:46:01,030 --> 00:46:00,480
specific reason why an element of their

1397
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:01,040
life

1398
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:02,720
why aren't you answering that why i'm

1399
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:04,240
just i'm just curious i'm not trying to

1400
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:06,079
be a jerk about this

1401
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,359
are there demonic entities are there

1402
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,920
angelic entities because whenever i say

1403
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,160
that you're echoing it back to me as

1404
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:16,160
well people can kind of in that blob of

1405
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:17,440
consciousness out there

1406
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,119
they can kind of see it one way or see

1407
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,040
it another way and and i'm not saying

1408
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:23,359
that i'm not saying that i there are or

1409
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:25,119
they're not i'm saying but that

1410
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:28,800
is a fundamental question in this whole

1411
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:29,280
thing

1412
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:32,800
is are these these kind of free-standing

1413
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,000
conscious beings like if your

1414
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:39,119
wife or whatever or your friend was

1415
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:42,240
standing there you would say that is

1416
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:44,560
a manifestation of consciousness in a

1417
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:45,760
certain way that i

1418
00:46:50,069 --> 00:46:48,240
identify as an individual and a lot of

1419
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,079
people will say well there's a spirit

1420
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:52,079
being that is demonic that has

1421
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,359
manifested in

1422
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:55,920
a particular way and that is a you know

1423
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:57,280
freestanding

1424
00:47:01,109 --> 00:47:00,160
being what do you think about that i

1425
00:47:03,030 --> 00:47:01,119
think that if you say

1426
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:03,040
is it a demonic entity or an angelic

1427
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,960
entity i mean that's of course using

1428
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:07,119
a a structured language that is very

1429
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:08,560
religious based but sure i mean

1430
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:10,319
absolutely people can encounter anything

1431
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,280
that can be

1432
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,280
very trying and difficult and shadow

1433
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:15,359
based versus more light based

1434
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:17,119
so there's there's specific i've never

1435
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,960
had any experiences that have been very

1436
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:20,880
extremely negative all of my experiences

1437
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:21,920
have been very

1438
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:24,160
expansive and and beneficial so i guess

1439
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,319
you could call those more angelic

1440
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,079
but in terms of there's there's a

1441
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,240
specific um

1442
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,160
plant called salvia divinorum and i've

1443
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:34,079
heard that a lot of people's experiences

1444
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:35,280
on salvia are like

1445
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,640
it sends you to kind of the gates of

1446
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,880
hell it's maybe what is described as

1447
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,400
like an ordeal ritual

1448
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:42,319
where people go through this extremely

1449
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:44,240
negative trying experience

1450
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,599
and then it's almost like you're so glad

1451
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:47,280
you didn't die that you're so happy that

1452
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:48,400
you have what you have in your own

1453
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:50,240
personal life and it allows for great

1454
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,640
introspection and and appreciation for

1455
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:54,160
what you it gives you a different sort

1456
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:56,000
of framework by having such a dark

1457
00:47:59,910 --> 00:47:57,520
negative experience

1458
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:59,920
so a lot of this all of this though is

1459
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:01,599
about you know coming to more

1460
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,839
know that i know yourself and having

1461
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:05,599
appreciation of what you have when you

1462
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,000
come back

1463
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:08,480
from a trying difficult experience and

1464
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,920
especially something that can be so

1465
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:11,040
expansive

1466
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:13,040
um has that benefit if you're if you're

1467
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:14,800
willing to to go through it

1468
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:15,839
what do you think people are

1469
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:17,839
experiencing when they experience

1470
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:22,000
ancestors in this extended realm

1471
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,599
yeah that's an interesting question i

1472
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:25,280
mean i've never had any direct

1473
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:26,720
contact where i got like great

1474
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:28,880
grandparents as downloads or anything

1475
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:29,440
like that

1476
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,480
you know it's so it's all that's an

1477
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:34,079
interesting question i mean i think that

1478
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:38,160
there is a dynamic where we can say that

1479
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:39,920
you know you're getting insights from

1480
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:41,440
the ancestor spirits

1481
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,800
and whether or not they're part of your

1482
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:44,400
immediate family or just somebody that

1483
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:45,200
you

1484
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,640
have some resonance with and there was

1485
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:48,720
some specific reason why

1486
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:51,359
in an expanded state that chose to

1487
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:52,160
contact

1488
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:54,000
with you in that regard whether or not

1489
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:55,680
it was saying like i'm somehow related

1490
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:56,160
to you

1491
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:59,440
or it's somehow a knowledge of a deeper

1492
00:49:02,309 --> 00:49:00,880
uh connection with you had that with

1493
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:02,319
some that was somebody that was very

1494
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:03,760
special in your life

1495
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,440
like you know you lost a parent very

1496
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:07,359
early and now you're getting a an

1497
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:10,240
insight on somebody that left you early

1498
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,599
i i know a gal that

1499
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:14,079
had a has a son that's very special

1500
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:15,680
needs almost to the point where he can't

1501
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:16,400
communicate

1502
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:19,440
verbally and she had an experience where

1503
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:21,200
he basically was talking to her you know

1504
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:23,119
allowed her to have such an unbelievable

1505
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:25,040
deeper connection with her son

1506
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:27,040
that was so profound and life-changing

1507
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,559
for her so that was kind of a beautiful

1508
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,520
example of

1509
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:31,040
somebody gets not necessarily what they

1510
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:32,160
think they're going to get but something

1511
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,559
that

1512
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,160
it finds a way to communicate with you

1513
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,839
in a very profound way

1514
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:37,280
to help kind of show you something that

1515
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:38,800
you didn't otherwise see gives you kind

1516
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:40,720
of a way to objectively look at yourself

1517
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:43,200
okay so asking the same question in a

1518
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:44,559
different way

1519
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:47,920
do you believe she was connecting with

1520
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:51,520
that soul that spirit

1521
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:54,720
of her special needs child do you

1522
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:55,680
believe that

1523
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:58,559
that person who felt the presence and

1524
00:50:07,109 --> 00:49:59,119
the

1525
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:07,119
with that consciousness

1526
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:09,680
beyond bodily death or do you think that

1527
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:11,119
was a manifestation

1528
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:14,160
of just their

1529
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:17,200
own kind of stuff

1530
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:18,720
i think that when you're beyond the five

1531
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:20,559
senses you are connecting directly to

1532
00:50:23,510 --> 00:50:21,839
like a higher version

1533
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:23,520
of this other person right like you

1534
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,520
could say like there's the

1535
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:27,599
self that's the avatar on the chess

1536
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:28,720
board and then there's your

1537
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:31,520
your higher self it's kind of like our

1538
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:32,160
minds are

1539
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:34,240
a branch of the larger divine mind and

1540
00:50:37,829 --> 00:50:35,839
when we get into this dynamic which can

1541
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,839
be a very big gobbledygook of like

1542
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:39,839
we're all one you know it's like you and

1543
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:41,920
i are two separate corporeal entities

1544
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:43,359
but ultimately when we get into our

1545
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:45,359
higher selves it's like we are all

1546
00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:47,760
part of this higher divine mind so yes

1547
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:49,359
in that sense she's probably connecting

1548
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,200
to the higher self of this

1549
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,520
person that's passed on which is you

1550
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:55,040
know very correlated with

1551
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:56,480
with the higher version of you as well

1552
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:58,240
it's almost like you get direct data

1553
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,280
download

1554
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,280
from a higher level consciousness state

1555
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:02,800
that you're both

1556
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:05,920
outside of your corporeal being

1557
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:08,240
in a direct communication it's like you

1558
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,000
have direct connection to one another

1559
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:12,559
okay great my grilling is almost over

1560
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:14,960
what about e.t

1561
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:17,359
you mean like you mean like aliens

1562
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:18,800
separate outside of us

1563
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:21,680
type deal exactly i mean it's kind of

1564
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:22,000
well

1565
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:23,920
reported and it always you know you

1566
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,680
answered the survey and i i just really

1567
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:26,960
appreciate you again

1568
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:29,839
folks this is me this is how i do it it

1569
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:31,520
doesn't mean that this guy

1570
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:33,680
isn't fantastic in his films and i

1571
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:35,280
bought both of them and they're

1572
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:38,079
very affordable 10 bucks you can buy it

1573
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,520
download it you can even share it with

1574
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,280
your friends for 10 bucks

1575
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:44,160
well worth it great i purchased both of

1576
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:46,240
them i encourage you to do both of them

1577
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:47,280
the first one

1578
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,520
is fantastic i can't believe you guys

1579
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:50,800
did that

1580
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,440
on the kind of budget you said because

1581
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:55,119
cinemagraphically you just look at and

1582
00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:56,640
go wow this is a major

1583
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:58,559
hollywood thing but we're running out of

1584
00:52:02,630 --> 00:51:59,680
time so let me

1585
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:02,640
hit you with that one e.t i i don't

1586
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:04,160
understand where people are coming from

1587
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:05,599
when we now have we're in

1588
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:07,599
post-disclosure right so we have the

1589
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:08,640
videos

1590
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:11,119
we have the government what's that it's

1591
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:12,480
been on like mainstream media

1592
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,119
practically

1593
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:15,839
yeah as if that was the ultimate measure

1594
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:17,040
of uh

1595
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:18,800
all that is a measure of is that it's a

1596
00:52:23,589 --> 00:52:21,040
roll out right that it's a side

1597
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:23,599
that tells you that it is now that has

1598
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:24,880
now reached the level

1599
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:27,760
of a psychological control operation

1600
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:28,160
that's

1601
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,040
all that means but given given that it's

1602
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:33,040
been revealed to that extent

1603
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:35,119
i i don't understand people who are

1604
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:36,559
still on the fence

1605
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:39,680
about non-human intelligence and

1606
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:42,079
in particular in these extended realms

1607
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:43,200
where e.t

1608
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,559
seems to be playing around all the time

1609
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:47,760
and you know the whole

1610
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:49,760
uh i reference this all the time people

1611
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:52,000
get tired of but if you look at mk

1612
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:54,640
ultra and you look at those experiments

1613
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:56,720
that there's good reason to believe that

1614
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:59,200
one of the primary driving forces for

1615
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:00,079
them even being

1616
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,640
interested in mind control was that they

1617
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,240
had encountered

1618
00:53:07,589 --> 00:53:06,640
non-human intelligence they understand

1619
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,599
that they understood that the

1620
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:09,520
communication was telepathic

1621
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:11,040
and they understood the power of that

1622
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:12,960
and they said we gotta figure out

1623
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:16,000
what's going on in this kind of extended

1624
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,920
understanding of consciousness so i

1625
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:19,520
don't understand the e.t

1626
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:22,480
fence sitters of which i kind of think

1627
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:24,240
you're one

1628
00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:26,400
the the dynamic that is most interesting

1629
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:27,839
to me is when people are actually out

1630
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,240
physically looking for

1631
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:32,640
craft or things or crop circles and the

1632
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,920
thing that's most interesting is when

1633
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:35,119
they do the thing where they meditate

1634
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:36,960
beforehand which to me tells me that

1635
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:37,280
they're

1636
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,800
a little bit more into the dynamic of

1637
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,480
realizing that it is

1638
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:42,640
not just purely a material thing i mean

1639
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:44,880
obviously i think that we do have

1640
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,880
intelligences that are extraterrestrial

1641
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:48,880
or not that are coming from some

1642
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,119
alternate place and then they can you

1643
00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:52,960
know you can have an orb materialize

1644
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:54,800
into the into the physical realm

1645
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:56,559
and create a crop circle or something

1646
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,920
like that

1647
00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:59,119
what about people that claim to have

1648
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:01,040
been raped by the lizard people is that

1649
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:04,000
outside of your crazy line

1650
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:05,760
yeah i've never had any experience nor

1651
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:07,119
have i spoken to anybody that's done

1652
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:08,000
that but i

1653
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:09,839
who knows it's probably the same thing

1654
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:11,599
as how you could identify that there is

1655
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,599
such a valid thing as like a real

1656
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:14,720
exorcism

1657
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:16,319
that can happen and that's not just a

1658
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:18,160
thing i think a lot of people are

1659
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:20,960
unfamiliar just unaware of the evidence

1660
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:23,920
for that and and because i i like kind

1661
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:25,680
of jumping to the end game there because

1662
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,359
then it's easy for people to go oh yeah

1663
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:29,440
raped by lizard people get it how crazy

1664
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:30,240
is that

1665
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:31,920
but deconstruct that so you start

1666
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:33,920
deconstructing that you go okay

1667
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:36,319
what about the abduction phenomenon you

1668
00:54:40,069 --> 00:54:37,520
go oh wow well

1669
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:40,079
there happens to be extremely well

1670
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:41,520
documented cases

1671
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:43,280
people who didn't even know each other

1672
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:44,880
meet and say were you on the show i

1673
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:45,920
recognized you on the ship

1674
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:48,000
yes i had missing time people come back

1675
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:53,670
if put on the wrong way a spouse will

1676
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:54,559
notice that their

1677
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:57,440
their their other spouse was gone for a

1678
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:59,119
a missing period of time

1679
00:55:02,230 --> 00:55:01,119
collectively people are seeing things

1680
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:02,240
together and

1681
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:04,400
and having this missing time experience

1682
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:05,599
and then there's direct

1683
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:08,720
reports of people having uh

1684
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:10,799
these experiences there's implants

1685
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:12,400
there's all the rest of this

1686
00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:15,520
there's a well-documented history of

1687
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:19,119
lost pregnancies that are unexplainable

1688
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:20,880
there's a whole body of research like

1689
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:22,799
that so when you start

1690
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,839
putting the case together that way

1691
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,240
i mean i just interviewed whitley

1692
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:30,319
strieber who i have the ultimate respect

1693
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:30,720
for

1694
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,319
and he goes oh yes sexually assaulted by

1695
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:36,960
aliens that was the very first encounter

1696
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:37,839
that i had

1697
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:40,880
and what i reported in communion so

1698
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:43,440
whitley is not known to be kind of a

1699
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:44,480
bullshitter

1700
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:46,240
and he's been around for a long time and

1701
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:48,000
he's documented his stuff

1702
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:51,680
better than anybody it's a blind spot

1703
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:52,079
that

1704
00:56:00,829 --> 00:55:58,640
to persist within this community it's

1705
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:00,839
interested

1706
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:03,520
in you know ancient wisdom

1707
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:05,920
and theogens and stuff we we have to

1708
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:08,400
factor that in or we're just

1709
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:10,160
turning our head away from something let

1710
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:12,240
alone like i said strassman all this he

1711
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:12,640
saw

1712
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:16,000
know it's a really weird one

1713
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:18,160
too is cattle mutilations that's a very

1714
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:19,680
strange one but you know

1715
00:56:23,349 --> 00:56:21,440
to add to this point one thing that is a

1716
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:23,359
very thing to be cautious of is that

1717
00:56:27,270 --> 00:56:26,160
if somebody has a a lot of these things

1718
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:27,280
can be done in what's called

1719
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,599
a gestalt right like a group dynamic

1720
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,960
where you can have

1721
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:32,640
there's group meditation circles where

1722
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:34,079
people meditate together and have

1723
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,599
resonances with one another's

1724
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:37,760
meditations they seem to see the same

1725
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,799
things

1726
00:56:43,270 --> 00:56:40,799
there there's dynamics where people have

1727
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:43,280
um they have some sort of ayahuasca

1728
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:44,720
experience in groups

1729
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:46,000
and one thing that i have learned for

1730
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,440
sure is that if somebody is in that

1731
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:49,200
group that has a lot of life

1732
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:51,359
problems there are dynamics where yes

1733
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,720
you can have some energetic from

1734
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:53,599
somebody if you

1735
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:54,960
don't know much about them and they have

1736
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:56,799
a lot of damage or life trauma

1737
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:58,480
things can brush off onto other people

1738
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:01,040
in an experience so i'm very wary of

1739
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:03,200
who i would sit with in a circle i want

1740
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:04,400
to know that they're very honorable

1741
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:05,920
people that have done a lot of work on

1742
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:06,880
themselves

1743
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:10,240
and have balanced and lives of honorable

1744
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:11,119
behavior

1745
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,640
and there's there's been a couple

1746
00:57:15,990 --> 00:57:14,559
dynamics where i could have sat with

1747
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:16,000
somebody who i knew whose life was a

1748
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,720
mess

1749
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,079
and i wouldn't do that with i wouldn't

1750
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:19,920
do that because i know that there has

1751
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:21,040
been experiences

1752
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:22,640
or there has been times in the past

1753
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:24,240
where we've heard

1754
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:25,760
interactions where somebody's had

1755
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:28,160
something grasp on to them or jump onto

1756
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:29,520
them that might have been baggage or

1757
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:31,520
negative energetics from another person

1758
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,880
so these are all things that are you

1759
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:34,720
know again should be part of a

1760
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:37,280
mature culture and society that teaches

1761
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,480
people about

1762
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:40,559
you know some of these things that we

1763
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:42,240
don't just have to you know kind of flim

1764
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:43,839
flam through or find by just

1765
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:46,799
negative uh having having it happen the

1766
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,440
hard way

1767
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:48,960
right something that we can learn about

1768
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:51,440
through through people that have a

1769
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,680
lineage of transmission of of wisdom

1770
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:55,680
from elders that teach these things

1771
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:58,880
about you know living in harmony with

1772
00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:00,799
nature and then knowing what the plants

1773
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,319
are and how to use them and knowing that

1774
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:04,000
there is a place obviously for modern

1775
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,640
medicine

1776
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:06,960
very much has its pros and cons but then

1777
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:09,040
there's also a place for some of these

1778
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:11,680
medicinal practices that heal through

1779
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:12,720
higher states

1780
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,720
and the pros and cons of those things on

1781
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:16,240
both sides of the aisle

1782
00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:19,119
again folks our our guest has been niles

1783
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:19,760
heckman

1784
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:22,880
i think you just gotta check out these

1785
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:23,760
films

1786
00:58:27,349 --> 00:58:26,160
and all his work but this particularly

1787
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:27,359
this series

1788
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:30,079
shamans of the global village i we

1789
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:30,799
played a

1790
00:58:34,230 --> 00:58:32,400
little bit of a clip at the beginning

1791
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,240
but you really have to see it

1792
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:36,720
and if you're at all interested in this

1793
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:38,319
stuff

1794
00:58:43,829 --> 00:58:40,640
you're gonna love it because it's it's a

1795
00:58:45,829 --> 00:58:43,839
look into it at a level that

1796
00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:45,839
i just haven't seen especially in a form

1797
00:58:50,069 --> 00:58:47,040
where you can get through an

1798
00:58:53,670 --> 00:58:50,079
hour and really have a lot to

1799
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:53,680
think about and and explore so

1800
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:56,319
now it's been great having you on what

1801
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:57,839
else can we tell people what what else

1802
00:59:02,630 --> 00:58:59,520
is going on when is uh

1803
00:59:03,990 --> 00:59:02,640
episode 3 gonna happen

1804
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,000
yeah we were going to do it this year

1805
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:06,480
but of course covid took kind of a large

1806
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:08,799
dome pull over that so it's it's delayed

1807
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,599
probably until

1808
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:11,280
who knows when but the ideal way that we

1809
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:12,960
would do it is we'd kind of do episodes

1810
00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:14,319
three and three back to back cost

1811
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,359
effectively

1812
00:59:19,589 --> 00:59:17,760
you know peru is a little cliche these

1813
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:19,599
days in a little bit like

1814
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:21,599
i saw some onion title about like you

1815
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:23,599
know how tech ceos were going down to

1816
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:25,839
peru regularly and that dynamic but

1817
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,160
you know we probably will inevitably

1818
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:30,480
have a stop off in peru even though our

1819
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:32,240
spiritual journeys by no means end in

1820
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:34,240
peru sometimes people find themselves in

1821
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:36,720
peru so that might be a

1822
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:38,799
episode three and four with san pedro

1823
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,040
and the sacred valley and ayahuasca

1824
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:42,640
but you know yeah who knows i mean

1825
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:44,160
that's the thing about the show is that

1826
00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:44,880
a lot of people

1827
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,720
if they're interested in knowing more

1828
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,720
about the lineage of entheogens and

1829
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:50,480
seeing what these practices look like

1830
00:59:52,549 --> 00:59:52,000
seeing what happens when with people

1831
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:52,559
that

1832
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,799
are doing this in a tribal context

1833
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:56,079
instead of just like you know your

1834
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:58,400
scuzzy chicago apartment

1835
01:00:01,829 --> 01:00:00,079
doing them in more of the lineage with

1836
01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:01,839
the tribe that's why we highlight this

1837
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:02,240
that's

1838
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,720
show people actual context

1839
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:08,400
and to show highlight some of the

1840
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:09,760
importance of how these things have been

1841
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:11,119
used traditionally

1842
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:12,880
so uh yeah thanks alex it's a pleasure

1843
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:14,640
chatting to you man i know that uh

1844
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:16,240
you've been doing this show for a while

1845
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:18,400
and it's it's it's great to not only

1846
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:20,559
have heard past episodes but also be a

1847
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:21,680
part of the show as well

1848
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:24,400
so always a pleasure my good man thanks

1849
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:26,000
again to niles heckman for joining me

1850
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:27,119
today skeptico

1851
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:29,040
there's so many uh topics that we

1852
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:30,720
bounced around and covered and i really

1853
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:31,359
did

1854
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:32,960
give him a hard time on a bunch of

1855
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:35,200
topics but you know he's

1856
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,119
a strong guy he can stand up to it but

1857
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:41,520
the overall i just gotta stress i mean i

1858
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:42,960
don't want to come up with some hard ass

1859
01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:44,240
question because

1860
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:48,000
man hats off to these guys and the work

1861
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:49,440
that they're doing

1862
01:00:55,829 --> 01:00:52,720
it's just incredible so

1863
01:00:56,910 --> 01:00:55,839
what do you think about the prospects

1864
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:56,920
for

1865
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:00,319
entheogens as a legitimate

1866
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:03,280
healing medicine in the way that we

1867
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:04,240
think about

1868
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:06,799
healing medicine let me know your

1869
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:07,680
thoughts

1870
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,680
jump on over to the skeptical forum come

1871
01:01:13,510 --> 01:01:11,760
over to the forum

1872
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:13,520
anyways i got some cool shows coming up

1873
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:14,960
well i don't know if they're cool or not

1874
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:16,880
i go off on these little tangents

1875
01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:19,599
i think they're interesting but i have

1876
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:20,799
some shows coming up

1877
01:01:24,789 --> 01:01:22,799
that i think you'll enjoy stay with me